Commuter Car Options @ ~$5k budget?

"ZHP Sparky, the 5th" (e30s2k)
03/05/2019 at 14:20 • Filed to: None

I think I’m coming to a realization that I have a problem. I used to just read about cars and think about them in a hypothetical sense. I feel like over the last year I’ve moved to actively constantly be LOOKING for new cars. Is this common amongst the rest of the Oppo crowd?

- I sold my E30 last year, and during the entire period it was for sale, and for months after I was browsing CL daily for replacements.

- Got my E46, and calmed down for a few months while it was new

- Then realized our Crosstrek was too small and it was a good time to sell it while it had held a good portion of our purchase price in value. Spent a few weeks looking for an Outback, sold Crosstrek and bought an Outback

- Now I’m realizing my Spark EV lease is up in a few months. Not replacing it would mean putting my commuting miles on the ZHP, which I don’t really want to do. It’s only 25 miles a day but I’d rather save it for pleasure duty.

- So here I am…browsing potential replacements for the Spark. I do have time though, so no rush this time.

If I can get another super cheap lease I might consider it, but otherwise I’m thinking of buying something cheap outright just to drive to work and back. Is this a healthy trend? If so, Oppo I need your input!

This is the picture search result for “commuter car” popped up, so this is what you get for your efforts! -

- Budget = $5kish (to me this seems like that golden value all cars depreciate to – where you’re not taking on any real depreciation with ownership but can still find something that’s not a total POS)

- Newer, the better

- More reliable and cheap to maintain, the better

- More MPGs, the better

- More fun, the better but really not a deal breaker

- More space/functionality better (i.e. hatchbacks get extra points)

I will agree for this to be an automatic. That way it can also be a car for my wife to run around town with and for visiting friends and family to use while in town (this has been handy with parents visiting for extended stretches for them to just have a car they can use without disrupting anything). I don’t want another cheap BMW or something that will cost a lot to keep running. Ideally I’ll just pay for fuel and basic maintenance, and a few years later just sell it for a couple of grand, resulting in a pretty low cost of ownership.

Based on rough CL searches things I’ve seen –

- Scion Xb

- Toyota Matrix

- Toyota Prius

- Honda Fit (but I’ve heard these actually aren’t that fuel efficient?)

- Honda Civic/Civic Hybrid

- Early Nissan Leaf?

- Suzuki SX4 just for quirk factor?

How much risk am I taking on with an old Hybrid/EV as far as battery packs go? The Xb seems like a good mix of everything I’m looking for and seems just uncommon enough to be slightly interesting?

Anything else Oppo would recommend right off the bat?

DISCUSSION (67)

random001 > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
03/05/2019 at 14:25

You have a Spark EV, eh? Tell me more....

Dru > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
03/05/2019 at 14:28

Older Mazda 3 hatch? Practical enough, can be manual or auto. Fun-adjacent.

Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
03/05/2019 at 14:29

For that budget, I’d probably get the Matrix/Pontiac Vibe. Can be had with a manual and the 2ZZ. So basically it’s a Lotus.

BeaterGT > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
03/05/2019 at 14:31

Saturn SL was the choice for me when I was pressed with the same question 7 years ago. Cheap, reliable, fun enough with a 5 speed but easier to find with an auto, 40+mpg, and I fit my entire bedroom in it (think: Ikea). Might not be as new as your other options but you also pay under $2500.

Honda Element/Insight could be good options too.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap
03/05/2019 at 14:32

Haha goes well with the theme of my recent Lyft ride where the driver told me his Jetta was basically an Audi A4.

Begrudgingly going auto on this one, will be more useful for the household in general...but yeah it seems like a good option.

I’m kind of drawn to a cheap Honda Element too.

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
03/05/2019 at 14:32

If you go with the Toyota Matrix/Vibe don’t get the “ S”(larger engine) , the fuel economy is pretty disappointing for a small car and the “sporty ” part really isn’t all that sporty. Also, find a manual. And the Vibe will be cheaper to insure because no one steals a Pontiac.

For Sweden > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
03/05/2019 at 14:32

How much would it cost to buy the Spark EV?

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > Dru
03/05/2019 at 14:33

Yeah I thought so too but none pop up locally on my searches. Definitely keeping an eye out though, although I don’t know if they’re known to be quite as reliable or fuel efficient as a more boring Toyota or Honda?

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > random001
03/05/2019 at 14:36

It is a car. I pay $120 a month to use it, and paid $0 down. Not much else to say?

Honestly it’s fine. Don’t think I’d ever buy one (see them for ~$8k) unless I knew I was going to keep it forever and run it in to the ground. For just runaround duty it does its job and is way more fun than any ICE super budget tiny car will be. No wheezy engine that does nothing, quiet effortless driving experience, and fun-ish in a straight line. Absolutely horrendous in anything resembling snow though.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > BeaterGT
03/05/2019 at 14:37

Yeah I’d like to at least have a semblance of safety, apparently my wife doesn’t want me to kill myself in an accident or something. So I’m willing to humor her by throwing a few more grand for something a tad bit newer and “safer” than what I’d find for $2500.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s
03/05/2019 at 14:37

Good to know, thanks!

For Sweden > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
03/05/2019 at 14:38

Buy this Civic Hybrid with a manual transmission for $4250

Kinja'd!!!

https://portland.craigslist.org/wsc/cto/d/beaverton-05-honda-civic-hybrid-5spd-46/6832909462.html

farscythe - makin da cawfee! > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
03/05/2019 at 14:38

a 30 year old civic thats ratty but runs forever + a rover sd

i dont know why people dont ask me for advice more often

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > For Sweden
03/05/2019 at 14:39

I don’t remember what the number on my lease contract was for buyout at the end - I just remember it being something ridiculous like $15k that I rolled my eyes at.

See them listed for around $8-9 k all day long.

Nibby > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
03/05/2019 at 14:39

ford aspire

Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
03/05/2019 at 14:41

The Elements are interesting. Although, the mileage might not be all that great. Then again it would get 25 highway and thats better than my current so...

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
03/05/2019 at 14:41

Pontiac Vibe -- it's a Matrix, but more affordable

Mercedes Streeter > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
03/05/2019 at 14:42

Find one of the super rare third gen smarts with an honest to god three pedal? :D

Kinja'd!!!

BeaterGT > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
03/05/2019 at 14:43

I was going to say you won’t be going fast enough to hurt anything but somehow I don’t think your wife will accept that...good luck!

Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
03/05/2019 at 14:48

Aside from the battery question , Leafs are incredibly reliable and cost practically nothing to run (not just juice: there’s no servicing and tires/brakes last for ever) . Plus they depreciate so fast you’ll get a much newer one for the money than you will anythi ng else on the li st, which further reduces the risk of things breaking.

So if your comm ute is short enough that you could get by with severe battery degradation (say 30 miles roundtrip) then it’s a pretty decent gamble that it’ll have paid for itself by the time yo u finally have to scrap it due to the battery. Our 2012 Leaf still has 10 bars of battery capacity , so at current rate of degradation I’ve probably got another 4 or 5 years in it before it drops below the 8 bars that would have triggered the battery recall. At which point it’ll still have 50-odd miles of range.

Plus they’re a nice commuter car. Easy to drive, comfortable, peppy at town speeds , and being able to prewarm or precool the interior is a great feature for the m orning comm ute.

Failing a L eaf, I’d go Fit. I don’t know about economy, but they’re fun to drive, reasonably re l iable, and r idiculously capacious for their size.

nerd_racing > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
03/05/2019 at 14:53

Mazda 2 hatchback. Super cheap, sub 5k. Great mileage with the manual, easy to operate and low maintenance, very tossable and fun to drive spiri tedly.

Kinja'd!!!

412GTI > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
03/05/2019 at 14:55

I feel like I’m turning my Oppo card in, but the Prius is on your list and I would consider it. Battery replacement doesn’t seem like a daunting task after watching ChrisFix’s video and they seem quite reliable besides that.

A Matrix/Vibe is a great suggestion, but if you’re used to Electric and not paying for gas, a hybrid seems like a good compromise.

Don’t think you’ll find too many leases under 200/mo with just drive offs.

nerd_racing > Nibby
03/05/2019 at 14:57

I got one for $300 needs rings tho. I’m putting a 1.8L Escort GT (same as NA8 miata) engine in it. Sport Edition too.

Future Heap Owner > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
03/05/2019 at 14:59

Newer Honda Fits (2015+) seem to get 35 avg MPG in the real world, older ones about 32. Anecdotally, I’ve heard they do 40+ on the highway.

Source: http://www.fuelly.com/car/honda/fit

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
03/05/2019 at 15:13

Mazda 3 sedan, 2.0L engine. Great fuel economy, very reliable and more fun than the honda or toyota.

https://kalispell.craigslist.org/cto/d/east-glacier-park-2011-mazda-3/6833784612.html

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap
03/05/2019 at 15:20

Yeah I’d settle for 25MPG+ highway on regular gas. My commute is short enough where that’s not a huge deal. Mostly would be nice to at least feel like I’m getting better MPGs than my BMW...which I’d rather be driving lol.

Also no idea how reliable a non-S Mini would be? I know the turbo/SC cars had issues but haven’t heard much about the regular ones. They’re dirt cheap, are known to get great MPGs, and might be quite a bit more fun.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > For Sweden
03/05/2019 at 15:22

Man I love those things. Something about a hybrid manual is so cool to me - other than this and the original Insight are there any other option s out there?

But I think this will be forced to be auto only just for practicality of other people being able to use it too. And likely won’t be buying for another few months so doubt something like this will be on the market then.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever
03/05/2019 at 15:25

I know nothing about reliability on Mazdas - outside of them not having the reputation quite as high as Toyota or Honda. Unwarranted concerns? Definitely a contender to look in to!

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > Future Heap Owner
03/05/2019 at 15:26

That site is an awesome resource. 32 isn’t half bad, well above what I’d consider acceptable given how short my commute is.

punkgoose17 > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
03/05/2019 at 15:27

I vote for a used Leaf or Spark or i-Miev.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > 412GTI
03/05/2019 at 15:28

Yeah a hybrid would be a great option if the risk was minimal. Especially for commuter duty in stop and go traffic there’s something to be said for the smooth effortless nature of an electric/hybrid drivetrain.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
03/05/2019 at 15:30

I have a 2006 Mazda 3, still going strong, doesn’t burn oil, original clutch, etc.. My mom has a 2015 CX-5, loves it. Previously had an MX-6 great car still running at 200,000 miles.

Their styling and interiors are a step above honda and toyota too.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > nerd_racing
03/05/2019 at 15:30

Being around the size of our Spark it would be nice to have something with a bit more space, but certainly in the ballpark. Especially with a kid now any family trips will happen in the Outback, so perhaps space isn’t something I should worry about.

Nibby > nerd_racing
03/05/2019 at 15:31

pics

For Sweden > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
03/05/2019 at 15:34

Tell those other people to buy their own cars

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen
03/05/2019 at 15:34

This is great input. Yeah – being able to prewarm my car while it is still plugged in on cold mornings is amazing, will be rough to move away from. Especially since this car will never win a garage spot. If you were buying a Leaf today how would you look in to the battery issue? Is it simply a matter of checking how many bars stack up when fully charged? Or could a car show full bars but still have some major issue hiding underneath?

I’m definitely sold on EVs, especially after this current car which is probably the shittiest of the bunch out there and still it’s been wonderful. It’s amazing how little maintenance it takes – it’s literally an appliance you turn on and go. Which for a commuter is just fine, especially given how cheap they are to run. So being able to keep an EV in the household would be great even after this lease is up.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > Mercedes Streeter
03/05/2019 at 15:35

I really expected a different response from you! :P

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > farscythe - makin da cawfee!
03/05/2019 at 15:36

Haha…or maybe you’re the only one who passed the test and everyone else is going to have their jalop cards revoked?

Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
03/05/2019 at 15:51

I want a Mini, but I'm honestly scared of them.

Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
03/05/2019 at 15:54

There’s an Andr oid app called Leafspy which, pai red with a cheapo ELM32 OBD2 reader, lets you read out a whole bunch of battery health info . You’ll need to go hunting on the forums to find out what the info you see actually means in practical terms, b ut the Leaf forums are incredibly well-informed, bec au se of the number of tech-savvy early adopters b ack in 2011-12.

The bars are a pretty gross indicator, though “more bars = better” is a useful f i lter for cars worth looki ng at .

vicali > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
03/05/2019 at 16:03

Civic or Mazda3. Protege if you’re cheap and have your tetanus shot. .

AfromanGTO > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
03/05/2019 at 16:08

Here’s my suggestion:

Why not look at a used Genesis Coupe. I have seen the first years 2.0T going for under 5K in Florida.

https://orlando.craigslist.org/cto/d/orlando-hyundai-genesis-t/6831306590.html

They are pretty fun cars that would be great to daily. When they first came out the dealers used to brag the suspension was 20% stiffer than the E46.

Here are two other ones that are a little nicer, but over 5k.

https://orlando.craigslist.org/cto/d/winter-park-2011-genesis-coupe-20-spec/6827295145.html

https://orlando.craigslist.org/cto/d/orlando-2012-hyundai-genesis-coupe-spec/6829234916.html

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen
03/05/2019 at 16:43

Many thanks!

LongbowMkII > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
03/05/2019 at 17:06

Yaris hatchback with a stick (if you can find it)

dogisbadob > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
03/05/2019 at 17:07

The Echo is worth considering, too

You might be able to get a Mirage for 5k. You might be able to get a Spark EV for 5k

There’s also the iMiev which may be possible for 5k as well.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > dogisbadob
03/05/2019 at 17:18

Yeah if they offer to let me keep my Spark EV for $5k I’ll probably agree – but under contract the lease buyout is waaay more than that. I don’t see them for quite so cheap, I see them listed around $8-9k. The Mirage and Echo are probably too old and boring…I’d rather give up a few MPGs or take on a bit more risk for something lightly less miserable.

dogisbadob > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
03/05/2019 at 17:44

You can probably get a Mirage that’s only a few years old for 5k

gmctavish needs more space > Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap
03/05/2019 at 18:11

My friends base Cooper is so expensive to maintain that it’s scared me off getting a Cooper S. Plus the interior feels like it’ll fall apart if you look it wrong.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > dogisbadob
03/05/2019 at 18:11

Ohhh you meant the new Mirages...I knew they were cheap off the lot but didn’t realize they were that cheap already used! Not sure how tempting that is still lol.

gmctavish needs more space > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
03/05/2019 at 18:14

If you do look into those, watch out for bad rear control arm bushings, they result in shaking on the highway and a bit of rear steering. Really lovely to drive though, the 2.3 makes reasonable power and the steering feel and overall handling is quite nice for a plain car. Nice ergonomics too. I was looking for a Mazda3 hatch before I inherited my legacy, they’re good cars. Do look out for rust, though.

gmctavish needs more space > LongbowMkII
03/05/2019 at 18:17

These things are ridiculously dependable. We had two in my old work fleet, both autos from 2008. They were both at 450k kms and climbing when I quit. Absolutely beat from all the teenagers, but they wouldn’t quit.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
03/05/2019 at 18:27

Have you considered a Volt? Not how cheap they've gotten. If you're looking at the Matrix also search the Pontiac Vibe, same thing underneath and no one looks for them anymore. There's some weird older Hybrids no one remembers too, like the Fusion or the Milan you could also consider.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner
03/05/2019 at 19:03

Yeah I’d love a Volt but they’re still around the $10K mark for the cheapest ones. I’d love to get a current gen if I felt OK signing up for a car payment, but don’t really want to do that. It really is a pretty perfect car though for what I’m looking for and one I’d be perfectly fine hanging on to for many years to come.

Yup def have the Vibe on my list. I just can’t stand how horrible the interiors are on those older Fusions.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
03/05/2019 at 19:58

“ Honda Fit (but I’ve heard these actually aren’t that fuel efficient?)“

Who says that? I own one and in snowy winter driving in cold weather, I’m averaging about 6.7L/100km (35mpg - US gallons).

And from Fueleconomy.gov... note the real world fuel economy people get compared to the EPA rating:

Kinja'd!!!

“Early Nissan Leaf?”

Crappy thermal management (not liquid cooled) means the battery packs have their lives prematurely shortened in hot climates.

The Nissan Leafs depreciate a lot for a reason.

The xB, Fit, Matrix, Civic and Prius are all good commuter car choices. The Suzuki SX4 is good too and has the benefit of AWD... but you’ll pay a bit of a weight and fuel economy penalty as a result.

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
03/05/2019 at 20:18

I always suggest it, but an Accent like mine? (2006-2010)

Can be had in a hatchback (though 3-door, not 5), fairly fuel efficient (I have to solve an issue with mine fuel-economy wise atm, but I usually get around 600-620km per tank with a manual trans from full to light-on).

It’s been pretty much fuel and basic maintenance for me. Parts are cheap and easy to get. The interior is a bit basic and plasticky, but for a commuter, it’s fine. Safety may not be a strong point though - not sure about in the US, but I think up here in Canada they only ever came with two front airbags. I think later ones of that generation (the MC generation) might’ve had side airbags in the US? If not an ‘06-10, you could consider the generation following?

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
03/05/2019 at 20:19

FIAT 500e? Pretty cheap from what I’ve seen. Don’t know much about them though, only their petrol brethren!

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > nerd_racing
03/05/2019 at 20:20

I sec ond this!

dogisbadob > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
03/05/2019 at 21:44

If you can get one that’s still under warranty, it might be!

nerd_racing > Nibby
03/06/2019 at 07:14

I still have to pick it up. My friend in St. Louis has it. I will make a build post when I start it out.

nerd_racing > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
03/06/2019 at 07:16

I did plenty of family trips in my 2012 2. It would fit the bill with up to 2 kids until they reached 5'5". After that they may not like the back seat. I’d say at least price them out and try and drive one.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > nerd_racing
03/06/2019 at 10:54

Good to know, thank you. Will definitely consider, especially since the 3s in the price range are pretty suspect!

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars
03/06/2019 at 10:59

Yeah the only reason I wouldn’t consider a 500e is given that it’s around the same size as the Spark I currently have but way less usable (rear cargo, no rear doors, etc.) – and like the Spark it is unfortunately nowhere near its depreciation floor.

I’d rather buy a Civic or a Prius for $5k and sell it in a year or two for a little bit less, than buy a 500e (a way less practical car) for $7-8k and lose a lot more on the back end. Of course it is a newer car, but not sure if it really has any more tech or safety that is meaningfully better. My commute is pretty short to the point where the gas spent on something like a Prius isn’t really a huge determining factor.

500e does have battery pack warranty going for itself though.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
03/06/2019 at 11:35

If you can find a Milan you’ll be surprised at how big the upgrade is. I have an 07 Milan (base trim FWD V6) and it’s interior is still solid. For example, I checked out a GMC Canyon Denali and was like come on GM, my 12 year old Milan has nicer touch materials on the door panels and dash than your luxury mid-size truck!

If you can find a Milan Hybrid, you might score a sweet deal.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner
03/06/2019 at 13:46

Good to know, will keep an eye out. Didn’t even know the Milan came in a hybrid version!

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
03/07/2019 at 11:40

They even made the MKZ in a hybrid if you want it even nicer!

MKZ Hybrid

That one is a bit high for the budget but a hell of a nice option.

They’re all harder to find but are really nice cars. I’ve been driving my 07 Milan for almost 7 years and about 90,000 miles now.

John tien > Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen
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John tien > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
10/11/2019 at 16:01